Skyrim - 4 Factions we wished were more fleshed out


In our latest Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim video we discuss some factions we thought could have been fleshed out more.

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is an open world action role-playing video game developed by Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks. It is the fifth main installment in The Elder Scrolls series, following The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and was released worldwide for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 on November 11, 2011.

The game's main story revolves around the player character and their quest to defeat Alduin the World-Eater, a dragon who is prophesied to destroy the world. The videogame is set two hundred years after the events of Oblivion, and takes place in the fictional province of Skyrim. Over the course of the game, the player completes quests and develops the character by improving skills. The game continues the open world tradition of its predecessors by allowing the player to travel anywhere in the game world at any time, and to ignore or postpone the main storyline indefinitely.

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Scott: newberrycrunch
Michael: oldberrychew


  • Moo Moo

    Hmm lets see: the Silverhand want to stop monsters spreading their venereal disease that makes you become a bloodthirtsy killer with no conscienceBethesda: they sound like bad guys

  • Tatsusama

    I remember the first time I did the Forsworn quest and I walked up to some random Forsworn and got attacked by the group. I remember screaming in my head "I FREED YOUR KING! I THOUGHT WE WERE COOL!" as I slaughtered the lot...

  • Matthew Chirino

    On the bright side, you can get a quick and easy College education.

  • Tatsusama

    If you're worried about Skyrim spoilers you deserve them...

  • The Glass Warrior

    Late again? I'm never gonna get remastered at this rate.

  • Technicality

    The Forsworn could have easily been made into the third major faction of Skyrim. Do the racist views of the Stormcloaks turn you off? Still bent out of shape that the Empire tried to end you? Join the Forsworn and take them both out. The Reach belongs to the Forsworn!

  • Noxcrab

    'Become a Bard' mod is a must have mod for Bard characters. Lets you play musical instruments, perform in inns & in front of the jarls, and gives quests to perform for jarls of certain holds.I believe the mod is famous enough to be known to many, but just saying just in case there's anyone out there who didn't know of it already ;)

  • Guybrush

    I was sad i couldnt join the Atronach Stone Faction and become the Atronach Stones Successor in the Game, standing there like a stone forever

  • Ed What's his name

    At the very least they could've made it so that the Forsworn became a non-hostile faction after the quest No One Escapes Cidnha Mine.

  • Oliver Cane

    Riften is a town of missed opportunities. You can kill The Dark Brotherhood why not the Thieves Guild, why can't you expose Maven Black-briar and Anurel then Blackmail Brynyolf and he will lead you into the Ratway then kill the Theives Giuld

  • Freebird

    Why aren't bethesda head hunting you for a job with them? You would be an amazing contribution to the elder scrolls series 👌

  • Grim games

    What about the penitus oculotus (probably butchered the spelling) imagine if you could organize troops to defend dark brotherhood targets and even the emperor and then going after the sanctuary

  • Andrew Bryk

    One addition - Penitus Oculatus would be a neat "good guy" stealth guild. Could work like Dark Brotherhood Forever.

  • Gellért Hujbert

    Yeah, the Bards' College was a big letdown. It was quite fun, but brutally short and pointless. At first, I was actually hoping for a real bard-faction for bard characters (speech, illusion, one-handed, alteration, sneak), but no. It was a minor sidequest. I mean, the Potema-menace was more significant than this. Hell, Lights Out was more fun.

  • Commander Shepard

    what do you call it when the empire attacks the thalmor? friendly fire

  • Frauggu

    Yo fudge what about the bandits? You could unify all of the camps in a massive questline and take over skyrim by raiding all 9 holds

  • Dis Pater

    Probably unpopular opinion among fans: All Skyrim factions sucked compared to Oblivion.Companions: Radiant quest -> Clear dungeon from Silver Hand which is same as clearing dungeon from regular bandits -> repeat 20xCollege of Winterhold: Go kill some draugr, Falmer and few mages. Btw. you don't need magic to become ArchmageThieves Guild: Main Quest is a giant plot hole. Hundreds of radiant quests in order to become guild master.Dark Brotherhood: Questline that doesn't suck as much as the other ones. However, the idea of treason from within is stolen (borrowed) from Oblivion. Even the grumpy characters that start to like you just before they get killed. Also it is quite short questline actually.


    btw the woman in markarth can actually be saved and you can talk to her,anyway a more complex story of the forsworn would be awesome

  • Mr. Negative

    in the forsworn story at the end you could have gotten the opportunity to become a brierheart and it could have given you a bunch of buffs to stats but also made you weaker in some other ways

  • Etheral101

    I think you should be master of only one guild at a time. And there should be a specific benefit for it e.g dark brotherhood having stat boost to stelth and daggers. Seems wierd being grandmaster of all of them at once.

  • Eric Crabtree

    You forgot the morag tong, the thalmor, the blades, the penitus oculatus and possibly a rebuilt mythic Dawn if you complete the mehrunes razor quest

  • Legendary Behemoth

    It feels like there were a lot of things like the foresworn and some members of the thieve's guild that were meant to be expanded on, like Rune, that were just left as is and forgotten.

  • Ian Trinidad

    Oh god, how i wish i could join the vigilant of stendar and have the option to deny every daedric quest or do alternative endings to em due to you being a vigilant. Bethesda must see this T T

  • Bill Cipher

    To be honest, all factions could use some work, even the big ones.

  • SeptOz

    I’m starting to realise that FudgeMuppet hints at upcoming video in social media. For example, this video: one said on Twitter “I really wish the Bard’s College was more fleshed out”, or something along the lines of that.

  • Michael Pettigrew

    The silver hand could have had a questline similar to the penitus oculatus who give you a quest to destroy the dark brotherhood, where youre just tasked with the destruction of the companions. It didnt even have to be fully fleshed out.

  • Viktor

    All the factions needed more fleshing out. The best description of this game is "Like looking at a sunset on a large and beautiful lake. Warm to the touch and inviting. You wade in only to find you can't submerge yourself anywhere deeper than your knees."Dark brotherhood was the least horrible questline. All the others were unfinished and rushed as hell.

  • Gloweye

    I missed the Thalmor in here. It would have been awesome if they'd been an alternative option to complete the main quest instead of the blades.Like this:When visiting the embassy, you have the option to tell Elenwen about the blades, and offer your help fighting the dragons. With your information, she'd be able to imprison Delphine. You get a quest to find esbern, and you can imprison him for the Thalmor yourself. Interrogation of him leads you to Alduin's Wall, while Sky Haven Temple becomes a new Thalmor outpost. They'll send you to the greybeards again to speak to paarthurnax after seeing Alduin's Wall, and from there you complete the main quest as normal. Only detail would be that you cannot ask Esbern about Odaviin, and have to ask Paarthurnax. Having imprisoned Esbern, the Thalmor could help you brew the Dragon's Potion Esbern otherwise provides.

  • vaperSweb

    I've always thought it would be good to have a Guards college - you see a poster advertising to become a guard (much like the arena posters in Oblivion) you go to the college, do a few quests then you get the letter from the courier inviting you to join the guard ranks of a random city.

  • M3T4LH34D91

    I've always said i wish that there was an alternative path to take with each guild much like with the dark brotherhood where you could either join or destroy them. That way no matter your characters alignment, you could do any guild questline or atleast a part of it. Especially with the thieves guild considering the questline is already pretty much shoved down your throat

  • wejustsawmanfly

    Nothing better than taking a dump in the morning while watching fudgemuppet ❤

  • Damien Jurd

    Hopefully you can join the order of the black worm in the elder scrolls 6 and become a lich

  • James Carbone

    If you're quick enough, you can save the woman from being murdered in Markarth and she gives you a necklace (which means that it's in the script for her to live as well).

  • DJ Red

    Sounds like a plan. I think I'm going to make a mod, to expand these factions and so players can join the Silver hand etc.

  • Juan Jose

    IDEA POSTED ON REDDIT BY ME. like ONLY if you agree:"As we know, without investing into alchemy, enchanting or smithing, accumulating gold in Skyrim can be somewhat difficult and mods that grant additional gold can kinda break the game in some cases. There is one thing that bugs me in Skyrim: why the hell can't i have a job? Of course, you can take quests, but these take a lot of time and rewards with other things while Money is more of an incidental reward. Also, selling wood logs and taking bounties are eventual, and do not give the feel like you are an actual citizen in Skyrim. With a job mod you would need to do certain activities to remain in your cathegory, otherwise you would be fired (for an instance, if you were a Hunter working for a food stand you would need to hunt like ten deers yourself - explanation: fresh food - and give them to your employer every ten or fifteen days). One of the main reason for this is to actually give some meaning to the dammn lackluster Bards College, where you simply become the ultimate errand boy by the end of their quests. In this mod, you could actually play instruments trough a mini-game and even compose new songs. As it takes a quest to apply, this would be potentially the best paid job, since the royalty of Solitude and such would pay a hefty amount to hear songs and plays form the Motherfucking Dragonborn. Most Jobs would not need quests, but it would be less rewarding as well. Jobs examples would be: Hunter, Fishermen, Librarian assistant (Winterhold College - similar to Urag quests, but with an insteady an increased reward), Shop Assitant (go hunt some uncommon or rare items for Merchants and such) and motherfucking Bard (perform in Inns - lower salary - or Palaces - depending on your Quest Progression)."

  • k.w

    i hate the fact that all npc speak automatically, they should allow them to speak only if you click interact.

  • Jonatan Nilsson

    One faction i really wish was expanded is the cult of Boethiah. I thought that shit was so cool untill it ended really abruptly.

  • Reapy_s0ul

    I meanthey all should have been more fleshed outcompared to Oblivion or Morrowind, the factions in Skyrim are complete and utter garbage with terrible storylines that only support a handful of different character typesExample: The College of Winterhold, completely and utterly assumes that your character is an incompetent buffoon who's just learning magical theory, it doesn't support an ambitious magus one bit, whereas in Oblivion, the Mage's Guild works on just about any magic-using character regardless of backstory (except for maybe a necromancer, since you have to kill Mannimarco during mage's guild, although you could rationalize it as eliminating competition), not to mention that the College of Winterhold is an incredibly short and underwhelming questline with absolutely horrid writing in and of itself. The College could've easily incorporated a split in the questline where you betray the college and join the conjurers at Fellglow Keep, you could then storm the College and use the Eye of Magnus to do evil necromancy things or whatever.In fact, Skyrim just completely disallows your character to have their own ambitions, it's terrible in that sense.I could think of 2 different endings to Skyrim that would've been amazing for a morally questionable or ambitious character:A: You join Alduin in a split somewhere in the main questline, allowing you to become a Dragon Priest and conquer Skyrim, this would make NPCs more hostile towards the player, and some factions might even attack on sight, but unlock powerful gear, shouts, etc and cause dragons still on Alduin's side to be friendly, while some other dragons rebel against Alduin, allowing the player to still collect dragon souls.B: The player defeats Alduin, but absorbs the souls of the heroes of Sovngarde into himself and becomes a Lich of sorts, causing some sort of powerful permanent buff at the cost of being banished from Sovngarde and not learning Call of Valor, maybe it'd allow a necromancy-based Call of Valor shout instead, allowing you to summon a small horde of corrupted shades instead of one powerful Nordic hero, this ending would also cause priests of Arkay to not deal with the player, and a priestlike faction would hunt down the player on a regular basis.Also, the different endings should have their own followup quests where you join a faction and do misc radiant quests, like the normal ending allowing you to join a faction of Dragon-Slayers and go out killing random dragons via radiants, or the Dragon Priest ending having you go out and wipe out random human settlements, like bandit camps or even small towns like Rorikstead and Riverwood, and lastly the Lich-like ending which allows you to join a faction of evil necromancer-types that have you go out and collect relics of power or maybe even allow you to usurp the ruling class with your own comically evil order of evil people who do evil things.

  • Elf Loved

    We could also say that the main quest and the Civil War quest lines could’ve been put together that could have another outcome like handing information to both Tullius and Ulfric that has the Thalmor plot of keeping the chaos. Plenty of missed opportunities.

  • The Apex

    "Legend says if you comment on a video early enough FudgeMuppet will comment on your comment."

  • Mr. P

    I hope in the elder scrolls 6 they take they're time and they don't have to cut content and maybe add more to what it could be

  • Tarlo The Boar

    I wish we got an option to destroy The Thieves Guild. I enjoyed Destroying The DB with one of my good aligned characters and I'd enjoy having him destroy the Thieves Guild

  • Ägidius Herzberg

    Another faction that i would love to be more flashed out would be the east empire trading companie.

  • Evil toaster of pure EVIL

    So, about the Bard guild. I was actually thinking, that it would be a proper fantasy bard guild - becoming a spy and infiltrator, simular to the Thalmor Ambassy quest, where you would be meeting some important people on parties, identifying your target, studying it from afar and then either kill, beat, talk or poison it. Simular to the Dark brotherhood, but operating in the open, as mercenaries. Alas, an errand boy questline, wepee.

  • Akut324

    Personally I'd be interested if they did more with the Penitus Oculatus. Like maybe have them be a full rival faction against the Dark Brotherhood. Now granted this is already kind of in the game but a full fledged questline to destroy the dark brotherhood would be more interesting imo.

  • LiamOldGen

    Imagine being able to make your own faction

  • Gellért Hujbert

    And let's talk about the elephant in the room: how the Civil War questlines were 99% the same. As outstanding as it was, Skyrim could never surpass Oblivion or Morrowind in terms of factions and faction questlines.

  • Nick Van den berg

    Agreeing with the factions. Bethesda missed some good opportunitie's here. Also I found the Civil War, Dawnguard and the companions quest line rather boring and didnt feel ''full'' if you know what i mean. I hope they learned from this and make it more lengthier and more ''complete'' in the next elder scrolls game. So far i thought the best faction quest lines are the thieves guild and the dark brotherhood(although after the dark brotherhood there's not much to it which i again kinda dissapoinment:/ ) P.S. Sorry for my bad english xD (And love your videos mate :))

  • Wade Slovick

    I'll have two numba nines, a numba nine large, a numba six with extra dip, a numba seven, two numba forty-fives, one wit cheese, and a large soda.

  • OG Haze

    They should have Daedric factions that make us do quests for Daedra like tricking Faendal into killing the girl he loves or freeing dangerous criminals or eating human flesh in a temple of diabella, etc. And repeating the foul acts will increase the chance of being rewarded with a new artifact like Goldbrand.

  • Konstantin Urich

    There is one quest, where being Bard would have made things easier. The thalmor embassy. Not just that a fresh bard might be of interest for high society (trendsetting, finding new artist to patronage and such). But as employ, instead of guest, you would have no need of a distraction to get into the kitchen and might even have an acceptable excuse if you're found further in. In limits, don't think "i got lost" would work in the dungeon.There are other quests, where being Bard would be helpful. Like Dawngards radiant quest "find vampire at court". Likely other, that don't come to mind.

  • Jared Byrd

    I love how your ideas for the continuation of each faction actually sounds like something that would be in the base game. The way you come up with stories for character builds and for this video (and others like it) is really impressive, so keep up the great work!

  • Bianca

    Would be cool if a player want to be a werewolf or specific race.Vampirism is easily obtained from vampires attacking the player but not in the case of werewolves.As for the races, if one would wish to "unlock" more races (snow elves for example) the player may complete certain quests or challenges so the next time the user starts up skyrim, the game recognizes the user as qualified to have a new race as a playable character and thus allow more option in the character creator.Sure skyrim is a massive game and virtually endless, I respect that. That doesn't stop any fan suggestion more stuff.Wonder if Bethesda would be interested to remake or upgrade skyrim. They would have to make a whole new game but completing unfinished projects of this gigantic game.

  • Tunnelsnakes Rule

    I feel like there's too little factions but the existing ones in skyrim felt rushed. The Companions felt rushed and you can complete it in a few hours if you speed through it, the College of Winterhold requires very little magic, the main questline of the Thieves guild just changes into more dungeon delving. The Dark Brotherhood is a little better but Nazir's contracts are not fleshed out at ll and uninteresting compared to the ones in oblivion

  • Misse Kasse

    Ofc i wish some quests were longer or you could choose different ways, but let's be honest, there's enough in skyrim. You can easily hit max level. And they work long enough on these games, so if there would be more it would be too much. For me, the World is large enough.

  • The Random Dude

    Why not flesh out the bards in general, give them a bit more of a D&D bend and introduce a mechanic like in Zelda or indeed D&D where music can produce magical or semi-magical effects. In fact, since it's well known fact that music influences emotional-states why have the songs you seek out produce powerful illusion-effects like calming or driving people in a large area into a frenzy?

  • Samantha Jacobs

    Man I remember my first playthrough, when I joined the bard’s college. I was excited to do something musical and then it.... well. It was extremely underwhelming. Since then, in all of my playthroughs I’ve not joined it (except one other time). I also remember how underwhelming it felt after No One Escapes From Cidnha Mine, with the Forsworn. I was READY to be a Forsworn, but then I couldn’t do anything else with them. I never liked the Silver Hand though, but it’s likely because of exactly what you said - they were essentially just bandits. And I remember the first time I encountered a Vigilant of Stendarr on the road to a city and I hoped I could join them - I kinda thought it would be cool to play a storyline that directly competes with the Daedric Artifact Quests. It would be so cool to play a Vigilant in a Storyline where you gather the artifacts, take them to HQ, and see about destroying them (I know they’re unique weapons and such, but it’s not like theiy’re used or even collected on every playthrough). And I feel like the Dawnguard would be an obvious lead into after that. Sad thing is that much of the more fleshed out factions are only laughably so. The College of Winterhold comes to mind first. It’s obvious they were planning to really, REALLY, go somewhere with it, but because they rushed it fell really flat. I would legit have liked to have natural breaks between the Acts of the Quest line so that we are forced to level up our magic skills. (Thank god for mods) I also wish there were more miscellaneous quests for it. I loved the Thieve’s Guild but it really could have done with a bit more attention. By the time you’re a nightingale, you don’t necessarily have to do a whole lot of thievery other than what’s in the main quest. You don’t really gain sneak thief skills a whole bunch that way. I did like how you were forced to do a bunch of thieving jobs before becoming the Guildmaster though. That’s what really made you work for the leadership role, at least, in my eyes. I also wish Brynjolf would stop saying he’s busy after it’s all over. And Karliah would have made a badass follower. The Civil War factions are obviously incredibly underwhelming. That whole questline in general is. It was supposed to be a focal point of the game, second to the main questline, yet its one of the most flat. And I really wish I didn’t have to join only either the legion or stormcloaks. I would have LOVED, to see a third faction or something like that. Maybe join Balgruuf instead, or maybe the Forsworn against the Stormcloaks. Etc. just something. I also think the Blades are very underwhelming. Hell, the Blades could have been a potential faction for the Civil War. And the way to join the Blades? It’s so nonsensical and half ass. They’re just all of a sudden “we know parthurnaax is a dragon and you can’t sit at our table unless you kill him, byeeeee” even though.... it’s their explicit duty to protect Dragonborns..... I feel like this could have made for a good speech checkpoint, where you have to have a high enough speech to convince Delphine and Esbern that killing him isn’t necessary - that could provide interesting trust issues that the Dragonborn has to work through in working with the Blades. The fact that you could recruit members into it is freaking cool, but then, all we do is kill dragons. I kill dragons anyways. The Blades have so much more at stake in the world than just killing dragons. Sure, it’s an interesting return to their roots, but it’s done shallowly. The Blades, in being a potential third faction in the Civil War, could have seen interesting friction with both the Thalmor and the Penitus Oculatus. I really wish there was more antagonism from the Thalmor. They are the real defining threat behind the Civil War questline. It’s obvious there is friction between the Empire and the Thalmor - it would be cool to see that friction played out if you joined the Legion in the CW. I’m not quite certain how yet. But somehow. In subtle and political ways. And obviously, there should be a lot more antagonism from the Thalmor if you play a Stormcloak. I could go on but I think I’m gonna shut up now. I’m so damned invested in this game, and I love it, but I wish there was more. Thank god for Mods though.

  • Riley Byrne

    9:20 Bard could have so totally been a major part of a playthrough. Not only could you have learned to play instruments that apply effects to enemies, or buff your allies, but you could have learned to sing better, which could have carried over into shouting ability, and who knows where that might have taken you. The dragonborn DLC almost added a bard power with the spectral Drum

  • Rumi Elle

    I wish you could join the Thalmor. Now you can help them out in Markath, finding the secret Talos worshipper. But I wanna make a difference with my altmer buddies! The Empire quest doesn't have that much Thalmor in it, other than a few dialogue options about them.The Thalmor is more than a fraction of course. It's almost like the 2nd antagonist next to Alduin. But I still wish you could do more with them. (Heckin' Nords. Don't worship/empower an ultra-murderer. Nuts to y'all.)

  • CheekyFox 05

    Another thing you should be able to do when joining the Bards College, is then being able to go around to inns and take the other Bards place. And then people in the tavern would give you a couple of septims on how good of a job your doing. Not too much cause it'd become broken. And what if sometimes the other Bard gets mad that you're stealing all of their attention and coin? A Bard showdown should happen :DIDK this is a dumb idea by a dumb person.

  • Silent_Stalker

    Factions i wish were more fleshed out1: Fallout 42: Fallout 33: Skyrim4: Bethesda's writing staff.

  • Eduardo Valencia

    There is No more skyrim spoilers it's come out 8 times already.

  • Riley Byrne

    They were so close to having factions for the forsworn and vigilants. The vigilants even had a headquarters with trainers!

  • Kevin N

    The college bard should have all of its member can do dragon shouts, and have questline where they have changed their group's view of the world because of the dragon returns, so instead of playing music and stuff they go hunting word of walls and become the defender of solitude, thus doing their quest gonna increase your speech skill. It'd be cool if speech skill can be use for shouts and not only intimidate and pursue people, it'll make the skill tree a lot more better.

  • James Sparkler

    With the Silverhand it would be interesting of you had to end up releasing the information to the Whiterun Jarl and with a check have it be possible to raid the Companions with help of the guards.I agree with the thoughts on the Forsworn though that would have been an amazing quest sequence to go through especially if you are a Breton on top of it all

  • OneOxone

    Bards College with Ordinator perk overhaul makes for a nice Battle Bard role play

  • Shit Nukes

    In my main character playthrough, I play a Vigilent-ish spellsword. Dawnguard faction did offer some lore and depth to the story and my character but it didn't feel good enough. You're right to say the Vigilance of Stendar wasn't that fleshed out since all they do is patrol and such. It would've been nicer if they had some quests where you kept hunting down daedra and their cultists.But the mod Agent of Righteous Might, now that felt like a subsection of the Vigilance which gave it more depth. So ofc I played it. Also, shoutout from Singapore :D love you guys

  • Lindsey. Murri

    Wait, does the saying go "flushed out" or "fleshed out"... have I been using it wrong this whole time? D:

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