Skyrim - The Problem with the College of Winterhold


In our latest Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim video we are talking about the problem with the college of winterhold.

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is an open world action role-playing video game developed by Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks. It is the fifth main installment in The Elder Scrolls series, following The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and was released worldwide for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 on November 11, 2011.

The game's main story revolves around the player character and their quest to defeat Alduin the World-Eater, a dragon who is prophesied to destroy the world. The videogame is set two hundred years after the events of Oblivion, and takes place in the fictional province of Skyrim. Over the course of the game, the player completes quests and develops the character by improving skills. The game continues the open world tradition of its predecessors by allowing the player to travel anywhere in the game world at any time, and to ignore or postpone the main storyline indefinitely.

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Scott: newberrycrunch
Michael: oldberrychew


  • explosiveCoconuts

    Skryim Faction Quests in a nutshellYou joinYou do one questYou do another questThe current leader diesYou do another questYou get chosen as the new leader even though you just joined like an hour ago.

  • Peter Badger

    First time I went to the College I went there with the intention of learning magic and improving my skills. About 6 missions later I was Archmage of the place despite only being able to cast apprentice level spells. I was like, "Really? I'm in charge? Already? I'm crap at magic though....that's why i came here in the first place......"

  • Gorveth

    My problem with all the Skyrim factions is how fast you rise through the ranks.

  • Chris Ramsey

    The college questline feels half finished because it IS half finished. Have you ever read the original plans online? The initial plan was to have the questline culminate in an ending which involved time travel, revealing that the Dragonborn his/herself was directly involved with the Great Collapse somehow, casing more light on Aren, Ancano and bringing the Psijic Order more into the game. Unfortunately, for Bethesda to make that all-mighty 11/11/11 release they had to make some cuts due to time constraints. The college got the short end of the stick, in my opinion. The College, the civil war, and several side quests were cut down. Personally, I would much rather have had a finished game than a cool sounding release date, but whatever.

  • The Last And First Time

    J'zhargo is not smug, he is correct. He will be the most powerful mage, you will see.Is that a sweetroll in your pocket? My mistake. It is in J'zhargo's hand.

  • Marvin Kitfox

    College of Winterhold's approach to handling new students:First day of classes: Hello new guy. Here, cast a shield while I try to roast you. You survived? Good! Now, the whole class is (individually) trekking across the Yeti-infested glacier, to explore an ancient tomb full of vengeful Draugr..Somehow I don't think the College is OSHA-certified.

  • Remy Martin

    Literally my lifeWake upGet readyGo to schoolTake a couple classesDont learn much of anything because its only one dayPrincipal diesbecomes principal

  • Wise Ferret

    It's been 200 years since it collapsed and the bridge is still broken. Conjure up a hammer and fix it already.

  • Ramsey Dewey

    Skyrim somehow succeeded in making magic the LEAST interesting part of an Elder Scrolls game.

  • GENERIC Toaster Stroodle

    “I’m looking for a Jizz.....last name Argo?”

  • Nemerly o,O

    The lack of students is a big issue for me as well. But the thing that really irritated me about this storyline was the first time I played through: I was an archer/thief character and had no interest in Magic. I managed to get through the whole storyline without casting any spells stronger than the novice spells or using scrolls and staffs when needed. I was then given the title ArchMage with almost no magic training or proficiency. After that first playthrough, I installed the "Immersive College of Winterhold" mod and that made the college better. And at least you can decline to be ArchMage and pass the title on to Tolfdir.

  • Tiny Room Studio

    my gripes are:-- why is there no guard on the bridge after you arrive? are you the only person who needs possible keeping out?-- the college doesn't actually teach you (or anyone else) anything-- it's idiotic simple to become archmage and has nothing to do with actual ability with magic.

  • Anthony Delfino

    The College is so under populated because Faralda won't let anyone come in to learn magic unless they already know how to use magic.

  • Tanner McNeill

    Fun fact: The last generation of students from the college are almost all dead. You can find a lot of their corpses throughout Winterhold. One was killed by a bandit, in the journeyman's nook east of the city. Another one's charred corpse can be found on the coastline surrounded by fire, with a flame cloak spell on the ground in front of him, and so on.

  • Chippy Pippy

    I felt like there were too many quests were you're the only one that can save the world from ending. Skyrim was like end of world fatigue.

  • Morgan423Z

    I think what bugs me the most about simple plot holes in ANYTHING is when they can be fixed by five second's worth of dialogue. For example, regarding the three students in the entire school issue, how difficult would it have been to have Mirabelle say something like, "You just missed the big event. We had twenty students graduate a couple of weeks ago," as she walks you around? Issue solved and it took two lines of dialogue.

  • gijuki 1

    If u calculate how fast u can get the archmage than I understand why there are almost no students (they are all bandit mages after 1day in the college)

  • ThibautVDP

    "Hey, you, new guy, run a couple errands and you're archmage. Deal?"Two days later, wearing the kick ass archmage robes:Farengar: "If you got the aptitude, you should go to the mages college of Winterhold."Dragonborn: "K"

  • GreenTea

    "Until Bethesda fires or relocates Emil Pagliarulo, do not expect quality storylines ever again"...

  • TheStigma

    The college of Winterhold is just shallow - that's it basically. It clearly didn't get the time and effort it needed to be special. It somewhat extends to some of the other guilds in Skyrim too, but COW was definitely the weakest overall.Aside from just the college itself (and it's questline) needing to be fleshed out you need a feeling of progression. A sense that you are climbing the ladder from a rookie who is just learning and doing basic tasks, up through the ranks and unlocking more privileges as you go.Start off in a shitty bunk-bed room with 3 other students of questionable quality to begin with and have to work at it to become a proper member. Also I think it may actually be better if they don't always end up making you the guild leader in the end. It's just so unbelievable that you would become the top authority in the sort of timescale we are playing in - especially since you will always be an adventurer primarily and not a school headmaster. As a headmaster there's really nothing for you to do to fill that role anyway, so it just break the illusion and makes you realize the college is shallow and static. It's more than good enough if you reach a high rank second only to the archmage that only one or two rivals hold.I think a great idea for any guild once you "complete it" is that the leader suggests you have learned what you can from this place and recommends you to practice your skills in the world to grow more. To facilitate this they will keep a lookout for interesting opportunities and relay this to you. This would essentially be a radiant quest type that dynamically points you towards questlines you haven't yet completee. The leader will tell you they have heard about something interesting - say a few lines about the rumor they heard and drop a hint or two as to the nature of it - and then send you on your way. Each guild-type could prioritize questlines that vaguely fit the theme although there's plently of room for overlap. The archmage might suggest exploring a dwemer ruin in the name of gaining knowledge, but the thief leader might suggest the same in the name of uncovering great treasures. I feel this is a very low-cost way to add more content as it only costs a bit more dialogue. Put a reasonable in-game time limit on it so it's clear you aren't really supposed to chain-perform these quests. Instead the intention is that each time you go home to your guild you will feel that it still has something new to offer rather than being just a static house with a couple of merchants from whom you have already bought everything that was interesting and unique.Write in some camaraderie and rivalry too for the classic "hogwarts" experience. Maybe some of the initial rookies you join the ranks of also manage to advance at a similar pace that you do. At least it would make it feel like something is changing and progressing, and those characters can easily be spun into sub-plots in various ways.All in all there's no shortage of thing you can do to make guilds awesome if you just put in the work for it - this one just felt rushed.

  • Joe Nesvick

    I thought the bard college is worse myself. No achievements. Basically one main quest and three fetch quests. Unless you have mods, no instrument playing. On the bright side, it can be done quicklySkyrim For Pimps Season 2 had a great arch mage task for the collage of Winterhold, cleaning the toilets (really that Out of Balance focal points quest). I’d ditch them all and marry Ysolda too.

  • Filthee Mudblood

    Honestly the master quests could have been multiple quest lines concerning the different elements of each school of magic. Restoration? Start by going and curing some sick people, eventually work your way up to helping entire parties escape dungeons for pay. Illusion? I mean that's ONE good quest, but there could definitely be many more.The college of winterhold just kinda felt slapped together in a rush and it was upsetting because I was looking forward to my mage build in 2012.

  • thunderstruk033

    A Psijic DLC would’ve been absolutely amazing.

  • Jared Laurence

    I wish all the quest in the guild were like the first quest, when you learned how to use wards and stuff like that.

  • Riley Hadley

    The college is definitely NOT part of the mages guild lol

  • Insane puppy

    (College)....go(Me)ok...(College)...(Me) I found a glowing ball-(College)YOUR ARCH-MAGE NOW

  • Jonathan Williams

    "Why are my research materials constantly disappearing?!"

  • Tsundere Husbando

    I know I'm commenting in 2018... But this video should just be called "WTF Bethesda?!!? Oblivion has WAY better magic than Skyrim". This could have all been summed up to 10min. Not 25. I still give you a like.

  • Desphinx

    So, I went back and started playing Skyrim a couple of weeks ago. I wanted to see how it held up now that I've experienced games like Dark Souls and Witcher. Here are my thoughts.Pros: The game is still tons of fun and a great time killer. The game has this sense of openness that no other game I've played has, you can marry, cut wood, be a vampire etc, even if the game does these things in flawed ways, other open world games don't do this often. Until another game comes through that has Skyrim's level of production and does this as well, I will keep coming back to Skyrim to play this way. Not only that, however, Skyrim's magic system did make me feel like a badass mage whereas Dark Souls magic system feels like you're a complete novice even when you've maxed out INT, because there's no difference between a lot of its spells.Cons: The writing is INSULTINGLY lazy in 95% of the game's quests (non dlc, non mod). Oblivion has one of my favorite questlines EVER, in the Thieve's Guild questline, and one of my favorite individual quests ever, in the Whodunit? quest. Base game, Skyrim has NOTHING that lives up to that. The best questline in Skyrim's main game is (to me) the Dark Brotherhood, which is just meh. Not only that, however, the game crashed on me SEVERAL times (without the mods fixes). In 2018!!!! That is unacceptable.And also, minor problems plague the combat, such as shields being useless and things like that. Without mods, the game is a solid 7/10 for me, as long as gameplay isn't the focus for you, like it is in a game like Dark Souls, and you focus more on exploration and character building. WITH mods, the game is a 10/10. The modding community has basically fixed all of my major issues with the game, and ENBs make this game one of the most beautiful games I've ever played.

  • Mr. Bubbles

    A cool idea is when you finish the original quest line tolfdir is made Archmage, then you are given quests to learn new spells only available to this quest line, maybe fight dragon priests and you eventually become a teacher of whatever school you have shown mastery in, or maybe you could be a jack of all trades teacher. Asa teacher you may be called back to the college if you have no urgent quests going, this letter could be asking you on deadly serious missions or maybe someone’s sweet roll was stolen. Also maybe as a teacher with your newfound influence students will seek you out as you adventure and will ask if they can join the college. Maybe you can dual them and decide if they are worthy, or if they say they are leaning restoration you can ask to see a spell of there’s. Maybe you could do a dungeon with them or create a problem they have to fix, like you start a battle with rage spells and they fix it with calm spells. Maybe you can still become Archmage by somehow killing the current Archmage in a story quest where you are given multiple chances to kill them in which it looks like an accident. And if you do the Archmage could come back as you progress through a different quest line where you become more and more corrupt, leading up to a final moment where you somehow find the eye of Magnus and choose to kill the Archmage as he catches up to and use the Eye to erase everyone’s memory of the incident or maybe spare the Archmage, in a final moment of redemption for your character as both you and the Archmage destroy the Eye of Magnus together knowing full well the corrupting powers of such an object because you just had an experience with it, and then leave the room never to show your face in the college again. These are just some unorganized ideas for the college that I basically came up with on the spot, do any of you think they are any good?

  • Exantius E

    All the guilds in Skyrim are less impressive than in Oblivion. In that game the presence of the guilds was felt in each city, there was a Mages' Guild and a Fighters' Guild in each of them, the "eyes of the Gray Fox" aka the beggars were everywhere, and even though the Cheydinhal sanctuary was the only one the player visited the Dark Brotherhood was feared and respected wherever you went and it was confirmed they had multiple more sanctuaries and even operated outside Cyrodil. Contrast that to the Companions and College of Winterhold, who while know throughout Skyrim mainly operate in their home city and are much fewer in numbers. The Thieves' guild is chickenfeed compared to the one in Cyrodil, although this is an intentional plot point, and the Dark Brotherhood is now confirmed to only exist in a single sanctuary, and unlike the Thieves guild they are even worse off at the end of the questline, having lost four members and gained threeThe Thieves guild's decay is acceptable, since restoring it was an important part of the plot, and the Dark Brotherhood might not even exist in the next game so showing it in its last legs is justifiable, but I really would've wanted more from the "legitimate" factions. As it is, they are just a bunch of vikings drinking in their longhall and occasionally going out to fight monsters, and a bunch of mages jerking off in the far corner of the world instead of recruiting new members and obtaining influence despite being possibly the last organization of mages in the world. And the worst part is they remain that way even after their questlines, all we accomplished was releasing Kodlak's soul from Hircine and fixing the axe, and contained the Eye of Magnus, which was a problem the guild started itself. We just restored the status quo, instead of improving something. I really hope we get more relevant factions in the next game

  • SlappingDingos

    Restoring the Mages Guild would have been super cool

  • Badpie24

    Great vid. I almost never used to play the college quests and only recently made my way through it completely. I do find it pretty interesting, but you definitely make some great points. As for how few students there are, I kind of liked that only from the story point of view. The idea that magic is so distrusted and this place so remote that the vast once great halls just echo with the voices of a handful of students is kind of cool and sad and solitary. Also agree that Winterhold could have really gotten its shit together better and rebuilt some things haha. I just discovered your channel and loving it. Great job!

  • Stingy fix tips

    enters college saves college and becomes principal

  • Awad Shakoor

    Also, not to mention, the place screams NORDSI wanted it to scream MAGIC

  • Isham Trivedi

    You're somewhat wrong. Skyrim is the kingdom of the Nords. Nords are viking-like 'Europeans', who fear magic and eat mages for breakfast. This is most-probably why the College is at the edge of the kingdom, and nowhere near the centre. So, if the local people of Skyrim have a negative view of the College after the Great Collapse, and of magic in general, naturally, very few locals would visit the college. It may be established that the College of Winterhold got most of its students from the neighbouring kingdoms, but even they must've stopped visiting since the Great Collapse, preferring to go to their neighbouring elven kingdoms, rather than the destroyed and apparently filled with racial tension College in Skyrim. Racial tension between the College and the people of Winterhold, and the Civil War that's going on. Obviously, all of this has been done to present an even colder picture of the magic scene in the cold Skyrim. Moreover, you should understand that Winterhold is not exactly a profit-driven organisation that might be closed due to a lack in the number of students, but it also serves as a residence for the magic-teachers.

  • fish fish

    How about ancano, a thalmor being in winterhold in the first place considering it's under stormcloak occupation

  • Aerin Gothyk

    Magic in general was really disappointing in Skyrim. Yeah it looked prettier and was more streamlined, but had almost no depth. It just felt like a bow and arrow skin.I just feel like magic should require some pretty insane tasks to improve with a very very high ceiling of mastery. Magic should be special, and very powerful in the hands of a dedicated student. And that student should be required to do difficult but rewarding tasks to improve their abilities. Not just repetition, but study and adventure. Finding artifacts, consorting with Daedra, sacrificing souls, secrets! There’s so much potential for that gameplay but it was just so shallow.

  • Jebradiah Drake

    My biggest problem with the College is the confusing structure of the building itself and how I have to spend 15 minutes looking around all the dorms and others rooms to find the one NPC I'm looking for if they aren't connected to a quest. And that happens a lot. Every time I am ready to learn higher levels of spells of course I'll want to seek out the teacher in that school and yet without knowing exactly where they are I have to look around all day just to find them. It'd be nice if the rooms were literally marked and said who slept there so I could just wait till night to find them at least. This would not be as big of a deal in the future where the entire layout of the College could be downloaded at once and we didn't have to sit through loading screens to go in and out of each room, but since we do it's so tedious.

  • sausage man

    When I first played the college quest I was like "wow, I'm never doing this ever again"

  • Henning Gu

    Oblivion did things the exact opposite. Self-made weapons are weak af. But magic could be overpowered (if you had enough magicka). In Skyrim magic is too weak mid to endgame. But weapons and enchanting together could create instant kill weapons. Honestly I like Oblivion better.

  • Harapeko

    No magic build = "Youre the archmage now"

  • bacd 1990

    Most develop fraction would be the Thiefs giuld that in Skyrim.

  • Quolley

    Everything in Skyrim moved too quickly. I feel like I do a few quests here and there and.... wait, I'm in the circle already??? You really trust me enough to do important thieves guild jobs after i acted tough to some shopkeepers? The sense of progression in TES V is completely fucked. It's way too fast.

  • jmm1233

    The Immersive College of Winterhold mod is great for springing up the quest line and the college itself , also it makes alchemy more viable with the lovely greenhouse and resident college teacher , and the underworks side quest is impressive , a true murder mystery , and to see the eye of magnus in the new hall is every impressive with the stairs exploding

  • Angh balahr

    I always hear: Succuk-orderYou know how to make Bethesda implement something good? Just make a mod and wait till your mod gets stolen by them and slapped with a price-tag.

  • hisoj

    college in general sucks. massive debt, a worthless degree, harmful indoctrination that makes you less able to enter the world after graduation.

  • Alan Rizkallah

    Thumbnail: "THE COLLEGE KINDA SUCKS!"Me: *ambivalent shrug* "'re not wrong."

  • tommy flores

    This idea would also affect areas outside the college as well. Trainer characters, would give you radiant miscellaneous quests, as an alternative to just paying for skill. The quests would involve the process of doing what you need to do to level up. Like the destruction master can send you to a random dungeon or bandit hideout, but you can only fight using destruction spells, if you do, the destruction xp you earned will be doubled. Or the conjuration master could send you too places that are "closer to oblivion" or something, and you go there and summon a random item and give it to him. Or a blacksmith could ask you to craft a random item of your skill level. you get the materials for free, but you can't keep the item. I just wish leveling up by grinding, felt less grindy and more like a part of your characters life, like going to school or working for a blacksmith.


    The Psijic Order was created primarily to handhold wandering novices.

  • Thallanar Rabidtooth

    Skyrim's College of Winterhold:"Oh my god, you brought us the milk we've been needing! You can be our new Arch-Mage!"Because we all know magic users are milk drinkers :)

  • Lord Penguin

    All of Skyrim had load of potential with lackluster endings on so many quests, and lack luster bosses.Honestly the only questlines I absolutely felt engaged in were the Dark Brotherhood Quest Line, the Thieves Guild Quest Line, and the Dawnguard DLC (despite all the lack luster bosses as well).

  • ArcTheChef

    I thought winterhold was a spell book market

  • I Love the Nation of Israel!

    Hopefully they fix this in Rise if the Sload.

  • Eli Parker

    I did find it interesting that after progressing to 50 restoration without doing the college questline, a prospective student approached me and asked me to demonstrate how to use wards for his entrance exam. I used a ward while he attacked with magic. Then Lydia killed him because he shot a firebolt at me. I shrugged, looted him, and left his naked corpse in the middle of the streets of Whiterun.

  • Kristóf Kovács

    Yeah, there are many flaws... I could write many things, but here's only one simple thing: What if you also need to complete the ritual quests to be the Arch-Mage? It's just a minor correction, but at least you could say you earned the title. Of course new quests would be even better... I think the series always brought something new to make me want to play, but I hope we will get a next game where they combine all the good things and make an even better game with amazing storylines. :D

  • Dunja K

    I don't know if someone already mentioned it and I don't really want to cry how Morrowind was better - but I liked the progression system for guilds in Morrowind so much more. It had major and minor skills that were valued by the Guild, and to progress through the ranks, besides the many quests given by a number of different NPCs, I had to have desired skills at a certain level or they would just flat out refuse me as being not good enough yet. By the the time I was supposed to become the Archmage, I was an actual mage.Imagine that, lmao.

  • Dustwarewolf 55

    Well, there is a broken quest where you have to figure out what happened to about five recent students only to find out they all died in different ways. There were also another five or so a decade prior who were all killed while summoning a dremora. You know what? I don't feel bad for the former archmage dying anymore, what with his utter incompetence causing at least ten student deaths and all. Granted, at least three of them were being impatient idiots, but come on. Such a reputation would explain the low attendance, and might even explain why the professors would be willing to let a newcomer be the new archmage.

  • Black 110s

    Immersive college of Winterhold is a nice little mod

  • Evan Wilkins

    The best part of the college is high key J'zargo

  • Effable 2104

    Fancy yourself a mage, eh? I'm more of a warrior myself.

  • P3nguin

    I think the arch mage as like the most powerful/valuable mage at the college

  • Dan Weeks

    I played through this storyline as a non-mage character....and then they made me Archmage, in charge of this place??

  • Auron3991

    Actually, if you look at the questlines attached to the College, the College may be the best faction except maybe the Thieves Guild. Not only do you have the normal assistance and major quests, but you also have the master spell quests (not exceptional perhaps, but still a nice inclusion), three non-quest items of interest (Velehk Sain, Antronach Forge, and Shalidor's Maze), but also arguably has Galdur's Amulet and Konahrik as well since the College quests are the only faction quests required to complete them.It's certainly not perfect, but it's a lot better than people give it credit for.

  • Ashley Gillespie-Horne

    For me as a lover of lore, the Arcanaeum was a dire, crushing disappointment. In its vanilla form, you would be forgiven for thinking it was disused; a relic of the ancient Nords maybe, back when magic was still somewhat revered. It should have been Skyrim's 'Grand Library'; somewhere a mage can spend hours and hours poring over each book; maybe uncovering a rare/unique book or two buried within one of the hundreds of shelves that adorn the Library from floor to ceiling.Instead you get a grouchy Orc safeguarding maybe a dozen books in a vaguely decorated room. I could understand if a huge chunk of radiant quests were procuring books that the Arcanaeum currently doesn't have; I like the idea of restoring a library to its former glory. Kinda like the Thieves Guild; turning the Ragged Flagon into a slightly more thriving area of black-market trade. And sure, we do get one or two quests like that, but it is mostly disappointing.To this day there aren't really any 'Grand Library' mods for Skyrim and that both amazes and disappoints me. I usually make a point of collecting books during most of my playthroughs; the only time I don't is if it doesn't make sense for the character to do so from a roleplay perspective.

  • Anton Nery

    Lol they make you their leader after a few quests

  • Gary Madafaka-Oak

    Bethesda's problem seems to be that their skills just don't match their ambitions. They can create absolutely amazing world with beautiful landscapes and vast lore but they lack tools, skills and manpower to bring that world truly alive. I'm sure they had much greater plans for quests and many gameplay elements but when you lack three things above, you end up with 200 more or less identical dungeons and quest chains that suffer heavily from rollecoaster syndrome. The game kinda shoves everything important to your face to mask that it lacks the depth you expect from it. Of course everyone has to praise what a great guy you are and what are great thing you just did because otherwise you would realize that you just basically fought through another 50 viking zombies to receive just another McGuffin to defeat just another saturday morning villain.Of course not everything in the game is actually that boring but majority of it is. And when the game has hundreds of dungeons with that pattern, that kinda sticks with you, certainly longer than these rushed quests chains that take fraction of the time grinding through those repetitive dungeons takes.

  • Andrew Glebus

    They kinda explained why there arent many students first off there are the four missing students who had a quest that was cut out there are the students savos brought into labyrinthian there are the students in the midden who did the ritual with the daedric artifact tolfdir probably killed someone by sending them into a ruin and there are probably more and the college is strict with who gets in along with the fact they arent very trusted

  • davekachel

    "From noob to archmage superfast"Well this is with everything in Skyrim. It is like every damn faction is waiting for the new rookie leader.

  • Gary Row

    Anyone liked the oblivion mages guild quest?

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