Skyrim - The Problem with the College of Winterhold


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In our latest Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim video we are talking about the problem with the college of winterhold.

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is an open world action role-playing video game developed by Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks. It is the fifth main installment in The Elder Scrolls series, following The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and was released worldwide for Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 on November 11, 2011.

The game's main story revolves around the player character and their quest to defeat Alduin the World-Eater, a dragon who is prophesied to destroy the world. The videogame is set two hundred years after the events of Oblivion, and takes place in the fictional province of Skyrim. Over the course of the game, the player completes quests and develops the character by improving skills. The game continues the open world tradition of its predecessors by allowing the player to travel anywhere in the game world at any time, and to ignore or postpone the main storyline indefinitely.

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  • Marvin Kitfox

    College of Winterhold's approach to handling new students:First day of classes: Hello new guy. Here, cast a shield while I try to roast you. You survived? Good! Now, the whole class is (individually) trekking across the Yeti-infested glacier, to explore an ancient tomb full of vengeful Draugr..Somehow I don't think the College is OSHA-certified.

  • Ramsey Dewey

    Skyrim somehow succeeded in making magic the LEAST interesting part of an Elder Scrolls game.

  • explosiveCoconuts

    Skryim Faction Quests in a nutshellYou joinYou do one questYou do another questThe current leader diesYou do another questYou get chosen as the new leader even though you just joined like an hour ago.

  • Peter Badger

    First time I went to the College I went there with the intention of learning magic and improving my skills. About 6 missions later I was Archmage of the place despite only being able to cast apprentice level spells. I was like, "Really? I'm in charge? Already? I'm crap at magic though....that's why i came here in the first place......"

  • Ashbee Gaming

    I would have loved a quest revolving around the Great Collapse, what caused it and why 🤔 some kind of big conspiracy

  • Gorveth

    My problem with all the Skyrim factions is how fast you rise through the ranks.

  • Chris Ramsey

    The college questline feels half finished because it IS half finished. Have you ever read the original plans online? The initial plan was to have the questline culminate in an ending which involved time travel, revealing that the Dragonborn his/herself was directly involved with the Great Collapse somehow, casing more light on Aren, Ancano and bringing the Psijic Order more into the game. Unfortunately, for Bethesda to make that all-mighty 11/11/11 release they had to make some cuts due to time constraints. The college got the short end of the stick, in my opinion. The College, the civil war, and several side quests were cut down. Personally, I would much rather have had a finished game than a cool sounding release date, but whatever.

  • The Last And First Time

    J'zhargo is not smug, he is correct. He will be the most powerful mage, you will see.Is that a sweetroll in your pocket? My mistake. It is in J'zhargo's hand.

  • Quolley

    Everything in Skyrim moved too quickly. I feel like I do a few quests here and there and.... wait, I'm in the circle already??? You really trust me enough to do important thieves guild jobs after i acted tough to some shopkeepers? The sense of progression in TES V is completely fucked. It's way too fast.

  • Nemerly o,O

    The lack of students is a big issue for me as well. But the thing that really irritated me about this storyline was the first time I played through: I was an archer/thief character and had no interest in Magic. I managed to get through the whole storyline without casting any spells stronger than the novice spells or using scrolls and staffs when needed. I was then given the title ArchMage with almost no magic training or proficiency. After that first playthrough, I installed the "Immersive College of Winterhold" mod and that made the college better. And at least you can decline to be ArchMage and pass the title on to Tolfdir.

  • Tiny Room Studio

    my gripes are:-- why is there no guard on the bridge after you arrive? are you the only person who needs possible keeping out?-- the college doesn't actually teach you (or anyone else) anything-- it's idiotic simple to become archmage and has nothing to do with actual ability with magic.

  • Tanner McNeill

    Fun fact: The last generation of students from the college are almost all dead. You can find a lot of their corpses throughout Winterhold. One was killed by a bandit, in the journeyman's nook east of the city. Another one's charred corpse can be found on the coastline surrounded by fire, with a flame cloak spell on the ground in front of him, and so on.

  • Chippy Pippy

    I felt like there were too many quests were you're the only one that can save the world from ending. Skyrim was like end of world fatigue.

  • thunderstruk033

    A Psijic DLC would’ve been absolutely amazing.

  • Niobesnuppa

    The College of Winterhold was a massive disappointment for me. When I first started, and I got my own dorm and the lesson, and then a field trip, I was like "Awesome! This is almost like Hogwarts, I wonder what other lessons there will be", but then there's never another lesson again. Maybe it's because I grew up playing the Harry Potter PC games, but I was honestly hoping there would be lessons for each school of magic, lessons where you would have objectives to finish and spells to complete. Basically at the start of the quest, it feels like you're actually a student at a magic school, but after completing the Saarthal quest, that feeling disappears and you just end up doing what you would've been doing anyway; killing evil mages and stealing their stuff. The Immersive College of Winterhold mod halfway fixes this since it adds magic practice sessions with the teachers every morning, but I wish it did more. I wish there were actual lessons where the teachers would tell you stuff and make you use different spells to complete objectives in the classroom and whatnot.The whole Eye of Magnus thing also felt really contrived and unnecessary, in my opinion, I really don't think the college questline needed something big and world-ending, and it felt really out of place for the teachers to ask a student to fix it. You're treated more like a mercenary than a student. Also, the whole "You're super special and we've chosen you to be the headmaster even though you've studied magic for 2 days" thing is beyond stupid.

  • TheStigma

    The college of Winterhold is just shallow - that's it basically. It clearly didn't get the time and effort it needed to be special. It somewhat extends to some of the other guilds in Skyrim too, but COW was definitely the weakest overall.Aside from just the college itself (and it's questline) needing to be fleshed out you need a feeling of progression. A sense that you are climbing the ladder from a rookie who is just learning and doing basic tasks, up through the ranks and unlocking more privileges as you go.Start off in a shitty bunk-bed room with 3 other students of questionable quality to begin with and have to work at it to become a proper member. Also I think it may actually be better if they don't always end up making you the guild leader in the end. It's just so unbelievable that you would become the top authority in the sort of timescale we are playing in - especially since you will always be an adventurer primarily and not a school headmaster. As a headmaster there's really nothing for you to do to fill that role anyway, so it just break the illusion and makes you realize the college is shallow and static. It's more than good enough if you reach a high rank second only to the archmage that only one or two rivals hold.I think a great idea for any guild once you "complete it" is that the leader suggests you have learned what you can from this place and recommends you to practice your skills in the world to grow more. To facilitate this they will keep a lookout for interesting opportunities and relay this to you. This would essentially be a radiant quest type that dynamically points you towards questlines you haven't yet completee. The leader will tell you they have heard about something interesting - say a few lines about the rumor they heard and drop a hint or two as to the nature of it - and then send you on your way. Each guild-type could prioritize questlines that vaguely fit the theme although there's plently of room for overlap. The archmage might suggest exploring a dwemer ruin in the name of gaining knowledge, but the thief leader might suggest the same in the name of uncovering great treasures. I feel this is a very low-cost way to add more content as it only costs a bit more dialogue. Put a reasonable in-game time limit on it so it's clear you aren't really supposed to chain-perform these quests. Instead the intention is that each time you go home to your guild you will feel that it still has something new to offer rather than being just a static house with a couple of merchants from whom you have already bought everything that was interesting and unique.Write in some camaraderie and rivalry too for the classic "hogwarts" experience. Maybe some of the initial rookies you join the ranks of also manage to advance at a similar pace that you do. At least it would make it feel like something is changing and progressing, and those characters can easily be spun into sub-plots in various ways.All in all there's no shortage of thing you can do to make guilds awesome if you just put in the work for it - this one just felt rushed.

  • hisoj

    college in general sucks. massive debt, a worthless degree, harmful indoctrination that makes you less able to enter the world after graduation.

  • Quiet Rage

    11:47 Are we not gonna address the half naked guy standing in the middle of a blizzard?

  • Morgan423Z

    I think what bugs me the most about simple plot holes in ANYTHING is when they can be fixed by five second's worth of dialogue. For example, regarding the three students in the entire school issue, how difficult would it have been to have Mirabelle say something like, "You just missed the big event. We had twenty students graduate a couple of weeks ago," as she walks you around? Issue solved and it took two lines of dialogue.

  • Wise Ferret

    It's been 200 years since it collapsed and the bridge is still broken. Conjure up a hammer and fix it already.

  • GreenTea

    "Until Bethesda fires or relocates Emil Pagliarulo, do not expect quality storylines ever again"...

  • Dave Adams

    students have a high mortality rate ... conjuring dremora setting themselves on fire failed skeever armys turned rabid

  • Joe Nesvick

    I thought the bard college is worse myself. No achievements. Basically one main quest and three fetch quests. Unless you have mods, no instrument playing. On the bright side, it can be done quicklySkyrim For Pimps Season 2 had a great arch mage task for the collage of Winterhold, cleaning the toilets (really that Out of Balance focal points quest). I’d ditch them all and marry Ysolda too.

  • Jebradiah Drake

    My biggest problem with the College is the confusing structure of the building itself and how I have to spend 15 minutes looking around all the dorms and others rooms to find the one NPC I'm looking for if they aren't connected to a quest. And that happens a lot. Every time I am ready to learn higher levels of spells of course I'll want to seek out the teacher in that school and yet without knowing exactly where they are I have to look around all day just to find them. It'd be nice if the rooms were literally marked and said who slept there so I could just wait till night to find them at least. This would not be as big of a deal in the future where the entire layout of the College could be downloaded at once and we didn't have to sit through loading screens to go in and out of each room, but since we do it's so tedious.

  • Desphinx

    So, I went back and started playing Skyrim a couple of weeks ago. I wanted to see how it held up now that I've experienced games like Dark Souls and Witcher. Here are my thoughts.Pros: The game is still tons of fun and a great time killer. The game has this sense of openness that no other game I've played has, you can marry, cut wood, be a vampire etc, even if the game does these things in flawed ways, other open world games don't do this often. Until another game comes through that has Skyrim's level of production and does this as well, I will keep coming back to Skyrim to play this way. Not only that, however, Skyrim's magic system did make me feel like a badass mage whereas Dark Souls magic system feels like you're a complete novice even when you've maxed out INT, because there's no difference between a lot of its spells.Cons: The writing is INSULTINGLY lazy in 95% of the game's quests (non dlc, non mod). Oblivion has one of my favorite questlines EVER, in the Thieve's Guild questline, and one of my favorite individual quests ever, in the Whodunit? quest. Base game, Skyrim has NOTHING that lives up to that. The best questline in Skyrim's main game is (to me) the Dark Brotherhood, which is just meh. Not only that, however, the game crashed on me SEVERAL times (without the mods fixes). In 2018!!!! That is unacceptable.And also, minor problems plague the combat, such as shields being useless and things like that. Without mods, the game is a solid 7/10 for me, as long as gameplay isn't the focus for you, like it is in a game like Dark Souls, and you focus more on exploration and character building. WITH mods, the game is a 10/10. The modding community has basically fixed all of my major issues with the game, and ENBs make this game one of the most beautiful games I've ever played.

  • Filthee Mudblood

    Honestly the master quests could have been multiple quest lines concerning the different elements of each school of magic. Restoration? Start by going and curing some sick people, eventually work your way up to helping entire parties escape dungeons for pay. Illusion? I mean that's ONE good quest, but there could definitely be many more.The college of winterhold just kinda felt slapped together in a rush and it was upsetting because I was looking forward to my mage build in 2012.

  • Mr. Bubbles

    A cool idea is when you finish the original quest line tolfdir is made Archmage, then you are given quests to learn new spells only available to this quest line, maybe fight dragon priests and you eventually become a teacher of whatever school you have shown mastery in, or maybe you could be a jack of all trades teacher. Asa teacher you may be called back to the college if you have no urgent quests going, this letter could be asking you on deadly serious missions or maybe someone’s sweet roll was stolen. Also maybe as a teacher with your newfound influence students will seek you out as you adventure and will ask if they can join the college. Maybe you can dual them and decide if they are worthy, or if they say they are leaning restoration you can ask to see a spell of there’s. Maybe you could do a dungeon with them or create a problem they have to fix, like you start a battle with rage spells and they fix it with calm spells. Maybe you can still become Archmage by somehow killing the current Archmage in a story quest where you are given multiple chances to kill them in which it looks like an accident. And if you do the Archmage could come back as you progress through a different quest line where you become more and more corrupt, leading up to a final moment where you somehow find the eye of Magnus and choose to kill the Archmage as he catches up to and use the Eye to erase everyone’s memory of the incident or maybe spare the Archmage, in a final moment of redemption for your character as both you and the Archmage destroy the Eye of Magnus together knowing full well the corrupting powers of such an object because you just had an experience with it, and then leave the room never to show your face in the college again. These are just some unorganized ideas for the college that I basically came up with on the spot, do any of you think they are any good?

  • Jonathan Williams

    "Why are my research materials constantly disappearing?!"

  • Tsundere Husbando

    I know I'm commenting in 2018... But this video should just be called "WTF Bethesda?!!? Oblivion has WAY better magic than Skyrim". This could have all been summed up to 10min. Not 25. I still give you a like.

  • Riley Hadley

    The college is definitely NOT part of the mages guild lol

  • OG Haze

    Bethesda really should have added a feature that lets you rebuild a town

  • gijuki 1

    If u calculate how fast u can get the archmage than I understand why there are almost no students (they are all bandit mages after 1day in the college)

  • Jared Laurence

    I wish all the quest in the guild were like the first quest, when you learned how to use wards and stuff like that.

  • Wells

    I hate Faralda's entrance exam. The fact that you have to cast the specific spell she demands plus the fact that it's randomly chosen means you can end up in a situation where you're prevented from entering the college just because you're unskilled in the relevant school of magic and your magicka isn't high enough to cast that particular spell.

  • Ikcatcher

    The Collage questline felt so short even though there were about the same amount of quests as the Thieves Guild, it’s like literally nothing happened

  • Anthony Delfino

    The College is so under populated because Faralda won't let anyone come in to learn magic unless they already know how to use magic.

  • Angh balahr

    I always hear: Succuk-orderYou know how to make Bethesda implement something good? Just make a mod and wait till your mod gets stolen by them and slapped with a price-tag.

  • LuBu4u

    Bethesda needs to sell this to Obsidian so we can finally get someone who's developed a successful RPG before...I like the elder scrolls games but bethesda seems more and more like "The Ideas guy" of the video game world with each release.ANY rpg developer would have wrote, animated and modeled circles around these retards. How does one look at vanilla skyrim and say "Yup, its done. This is a finished product" Half the shit didnt even work on launch and this very quest was broken for ~2 weeks.... It genuinly seems like, they know its the elder scrolls, they know people will buy it.... why try? Why spend money on effort?Half the shit STILL doesnt work without fan patches and they had the audacity to release a working version of the game as SKYRIM SPECIAL EDITION. Lmao, like, what??? People defend this group?? How?

  • Henning Gu

    Oblivion did things the exact opposite. Self-made weapons are weak af. But magic could be overpowered (if you had enough magicka). In Skyrim magic is too weak mid to endgame. But weapons and enchanting together could create instant kill weapons. Honestly I like Oblivion better.

  • kaps

    Alot of the game is a coincidence take the draugar ruins when they wake up or pop out of the coffins its just a coincidence you can sneak past them and when they wake up they act like they act like its just another day and walk around

  • Aerin Gothyk

    Magic in general was really disappointing in Skyrim. Yeah it looked prettier and was more streamlined, but had almost no depth. It just felt like a bow and arrow skin.I just feel like magic should require some pretty insane tasks to improve with a very very high ceiling of mastery. Magic should be special, and very powerful in the hands of a dedicated student. And that student should be required to do difficult but rewarding tasks to improve their abilities. Not just repetition, but study and adventure. Finding artifacts, consorting with Daedra, sacrificing souls, secrets! There’s so much potential for that gameplay but it was just so shallow.

  • Awad Shakoor

    Also, not to mention, the place screams NORDSI wanted it to scream MAGIC

  • Thallanar Rabidtooth

    Skyrim's College of Winterhold:"Oh my god, you brought us the milk we've been needing! You can be our new Arch-Mage!"Because we all know magic users are milk drinkers :)

  • Stingy fix tips

    enters college saves college and becomes principal

  • Dustwarewolf 55

    Well, there is a broken quest where you have to figure out what happened to about five recent students only to find out they all died in different ways. There were also another five or so a decade prior who were all killed while summoning a dremora. You know what? I don't feel bad for the former archmage dying anymore, what with his utter incompetence causing at least ten student deaths and all. Granted, at least three of them were being impatient idiots, but come on. Such a reputation would explain the low attendance, and might even explain why the professors would be willing to let a newcomer be the new archmage.

  • Unknown

    What you say about Tolfdir going from teaching you a basic ward to taking you down one of the most dangerous cairn in Skyrim is true, but imagine if they had to develop the whole cursus of an archmage, the game would last thousands of hours! It's an ellipse. A badly narrated one.Bethesda should just drop this whole Messiah complex, it's been overdone, and not just in The Elder Scrolls. It only appeals to people with fragile egos. Who should immediately rage about my com.

  • fish fish

    How about ancano, a thalmor being in winterhold in the first place considering it's under stormcloak occupation

  • tommy flores

    This idea would also affect areas outside the college as well. Trainer characters, would give you radiant miscellaneous quests, as an alternative to just paying for skill. The quests would involve the process of doing what you need to do to level up. Like the destruction master can send you to a random dungeon or bandit hideout, but you can only fight using destruction spells, if you do, the destruction xp you earned will be doubled. Or the conjuration master could send you too places that are "closer to oblivion" or something, and you go there and summon a random item and give it to him. Or a blacksmith could ask you to craft a random item of your skill level. you get the materials for free, but you can't keep the item. I just wish leveling up by grinding, felt less grindy and more like a part of your characters life, like going to school or working for a blacksmith.

  • Beanmachine91

    the thieves guild is funner

  • SlappingDingos

    Restoring the Mages Guild would have been super cool

  • Exantius E

    All the guilds in Skyrim are less impressive than in Oblivion. In that game the presence of the guilds was felt in each city, there was a Mages' Guild and a Fighters' Guild in each of them, the "eyes of the Gray Fox" aka the beggars were everywhere, and even though the Cheydinhal sanctuary was the only one the player visited the Dark Brotherhood was feared and respected wherever you went and it was confirmed they had multiple more sanctuaries and even operated outside Cyrodil. Contrast that to the Companions and College of Winterhold, who while know throughout Skyrim mainly operate in their home city and are much fewer in numbers. The Thieves' guild is chickenfeed compared to the one in Cyrodil, although this is an intentional plot point, and the Dark Brotherhood is now confirmed to only exist in a single sanctuary, and unlike the Thieves guild they are even worse off at the end of the questline, having lost four members and gained threeThe Thieves guild's decay is acceptable, since restoring it was an important part of the plot, and the Dark Brotherhood might not even exist in the next game so showing it in its last legs is justifiable, but I really would've wanted more from the "legitimate" factions. As it is, they are just a bunch of vikings drinking in their longhall and occasionally going out to fight monsters, and a bunch of mages jerking off in the far corner of the world instead of recruiting new members and obtaining influence despite being possibly the last organization of mages in the world. And the worst part is they remain that way even after their questlines, all we accomplished was releasing Kodlak's soul from Hircine and fixing the axe, and contained the Eye of Magnus, which was a problem the guild started itself. We just restored the status quo, instead of improving something. I really hope we get more relevant factions in the next game

  • Badpie24

    Great vid. I almost never used to play the college quests and only recently made my way through it completely. I do find it pretty interesting, but you definitely make some great points. As for how few students there are, I kind of liked that only from the story point of view. The idea that magic is so distrusted and this place so remote that the vast once great halls just echo with the voices of a handful of students is kind of cool and sad and solitary. Also agree that Winterhold could have really gotten its shit together better and rebuilt some things haha. I just discovered your channel and loving it. Great job!

  • InkWavve

    You even run into some NPC's throughout Skyrim whose schtick is basically "I have magical talents, but it's looked down upon in Skyrim. What shall I do?" Why can't you, a College Mage, or may even the Archmage at that point, just direct them toward your institution. It would've been so cool.

  • Motaz Fawzi

    What's the problem with the students clothes? 11:47

  • Anton Nery

    Lol they make you their leader after a few quests

  • YABBAHEY YABBAHEY

    The Psijic Order was created primarily to handhold wandering novices.

  • sausage man

    When I first played the college quest I was like "wow, I'm never doing this ever again"

  • evanasw 101

    how long was the great falling grab a freaking hammer and REPIER THE BRIDGE

  • bacd 1990

    Most develop fraction would be the Thiefs giuld that in Skyrim.

  • Skadi

    is there a mod which makes the lecture hall an actual lecture hall with desks or something. also actual classes that you can take, with actual times, where you can both listen or read a book that youre given. and as you said maybe like 20 students or something. this would be nice to actually be like a college. also i want the bards college to be like an actual college as well (being able to actually play instruments in vanilla)

  • Isham Trivedi

    You're somewhat wrong. Skyrim is the kingdom of the Nords. Nords are viking-like 'Europeans', who fear magic and eat mages for breakfast. This is most-probably why the College is at the edge of the kingdom, and nowhere near the centre. So, if the local people of Skyrim have a negative view of the College after the Great Collapse, and of magic in general, naturally, very few locals would visit the college. It may be established that the College of Winterhold got most of its students from the neighbouring kingdoms, but even they must've stopped visiting since the Great Collapse, preferring to go to their neighbouring elven kingdoms, rather than the destroyed and apparently filled with racial tension College in Skyrim. Racial tension between the College and the people of Winterhold, and the Civil War that's going on. Obviously, all of this has been done to present an even colder picture of the magic scene in the cold Skyrim. Moreover, you should understand that Winterhold is not exactly a profit-driven organisation that might be closed due to a lack in the number of students, but it also serves as a residence for the magic-teachers.

  • Topy

    have fun paying off college debt for the rest of your life, stay away from winterhold its not worth it

  • Flex Gopnik

    Well they used to be around 6 students...or 7 wtf? Where they slept?

  • Effable 2104

    Fancy yourself a mage, eh? I'm more of a warrior myself.

  • random talk with GARY!!!!

    Anyone liked the oblivion mages guild quest?

  • Aardappelsaus

    Skyrim kinda sucks in a lot of ways, but somehow it still manages to be one of my favourite games of all time.

  • Q77 Spartan

    This faction is a huge wasted opportunity. There should be accommodations to gain. In order to rise in rank you'd have to be adapt in a school of magic. When you join you should have the option to choose which school of magic you want. This should give you the teacher of that school of magic. After gaining knowledge on magic you'd get the vanilla game's first quest. As you would have proven your mettle. Afterwards you can get training in other schools of magic or stick with your first choice. There should be much more apprentices joining than just three. Vying for information of the eye of magnus you should have to search a remnant of a old city. Back from the era during the battles between the Nords and the Snow Elfs. When researching the ruins a member of the Phsic Order should contact you. Not to tell you that you're the chosen one. Instead he'll tell you what you wanted to know. You inform the college what you've learned. You can withhold the part about the Phsic member or not. Then you're directed to the Augur of Domain. However the alcove would be much bigger. He'll inform you where to find the staff. You can run this by the archmage or go on your own initiative. Either way when you return Aincoto makes his move. Thus when the Archmage dies. You then kill Aincoto. Now you have to save Winterhold from the abnormalities. Then the eye of magnus is taken by the phsic order. Along with what has been said in the video. That is my ideal college of Winterhold. There should also be a side quest investigating the great collape. As I said this faction was a huge missed opportunity.

  • Ernie Velveeta

    Does anyone else find it incredibly lazy that the player character so often is made the leader?I'm a stealth archer. I don't want to be fucking Arch Mage. I joined the college largely because I wanted to complete the question, and going through the questline is necessary for getting some of the shouts.Leave Mirabelle alive, and make her the arch mage.

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